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May 25, 2006



Whoa mama! That's as bad as it can get! I sure hope Java comes out in the open source space and grows leaps and bounds. Sun has been doing a good job till now, but it faces stiff competition from new entrants c# and others.

Don Marti

There is always the "If a division doesn't get with the open source program, sell them to Lenovo" plan. Hope IBM will freely license the business method patent on that one.


And James Gosling is the most public of these antibodies?

james governor

its Rich Green that is going to have to play bad cop. its his watch. he is the man that has to change the culture and take on JavaLand. it should be very interesting. nice to see you posting some more about Sun and the OSS issue. initial meetings with Green - he knows what needs to be done, and soon.

Danese Cooper

Don...Gosling is really interesting on the subject of FOSS Java. At various times he's said to me that he would like to see it happen (and has even pushed for it inside Sun) but publicly he's all partyline...meaning he's an officier of the company and won't openly challenge Sun. He's been spectacularly mis-quoted on the subject a number of times as well which has led to a public perception pretty far from the conversations I've had with him.

James...I'm hoping you're right about Rich but I'm wary. Rich had been at Sun a long time before he left for Cassatt, and so was involved in many conversations about open source in general and Java in particular. I saw him most often skinning the proverbial cat in a way that parsed to "FOSS Java isn't advisable because...". In the article I cited (from ITWorldCanada) I hear echos of Rich twisting on the hook on which Jonathan has put him. Maybe I'm extra sensitive. I was told smugly before JavaONE by a former Sun colleague that a recent Java userland survey confirmed (to the Sun folks who conducted it) that FOSS Java "just wasn't necessary". Look at first answer in the article. Rich says, "I think the only caveats would be that if our findings, based on the feedback from the community, were overwhelmingly against it, [then] we would certainly reconsider." If what I was told is true...he knows he already has that evidence in his back pocket. Certainly I agree that Rich should know what needs to be done (which was the topic of my earlier angry blog...I still say that to publicly suggest that he didn't know was disingenuous). Remember, he ran JavaLand in his previous Sun job. Simon Phipps keeps telling me that next to no one in JavaLand actually knows what to do...that none of JavaLand knows because they've been steadfastly ignoring all the instructions they've been offered over the years. They are not difficult instructions. I'd be happy to draw a picture for them if it would help :-).

Jeff Kaplan

As a total Sun outsider, I'm wondering what do the folks in Javaland think about the need (and path) for Sun's transformation as a company? Put another way, do they see that open technologies, including open source, are becoming prime consideration in enterprise and government transformation?

Oh, and all CEOs and CIOs seem to need those Jedi skills. Easy is not the work.

Jeff Kaplan
Founder & Director
Open ePolicy Group


I think open source Java WILL happen. It is inevitable. However, it is not imminent. Meaning I think open source Java happens in 2012. And open governance of Java (meaning a way that the community can do more than implement what Sun and chosen vendors think should go in Java) will happen in 2017. That is approximately when no one will care. Hey...smalltalk is open source now.

Dalibor Topic

If Sun's rule was that public announcements must be honoured, then they would have released Java3D, JAI, etc. under an open source license, rather than just talking emphatically about it in their PR releases.

I recall Schwartz personally "open-sourcing" Java3D on stage at JavaOne a year or two ago for LookingGlass. What actually got released under an open-source-like license (Sun's crazy anti-nuclear BSD+) was a bunch of programming examples for it. Yay. ;)

The ongoing Debian/Fedora/JPackage vs. DLJ fiasco, for example, is pretty astonishing to me. Sun's lawyers are apparently either unable or unwilling to write simple, understandable, reasonable terms to use and redistribute its flagship proprietary software for, I think, about 10 years now. That's ... just ... amazing.

Telly Savalud

wanna know what happens when you rush to FOSS? http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-6049960.html

John Jimmy Dondapati

Hai Danese,

I am John ( GOOGLE SOC 2005 winner). Met you in Linux Asia Conference Delhi 2006 in Feb.. I dont know if you remember me...But I do.

How are you? Are you visiting India any soon? would love to see you here again...

You were the first person to tell me about open source in Java Conference @ Hyderabad 2004, since then I am involved in this beautiful world.. Thanks for introducing me to this great community..

I am now mentoring a few guys in some projects(Open source ofcourse)... With the motivation that you gave when we talked in Delhi..

I came across your blog while surfing the net.. And Just thought I would thank you... Dont know your email address, so posting it here..

Please reply if you are free,

Kyle Gonzalez

Heya Danese,

Don't know whether you remember me, we met briefly in malaga airport some years ago, i had a bright blonde mohawk....

How have you been?


someone who knows...

Danese - unfortunately you are very (very) wrong in this instance. Your memories of how Sun worked are really off base relative to what is actually happening today (and yes, I know - because I'm apart of it)...

Just wait and see - maybe you will even see something "soon..."


A blast from the past...

Alex Mayorga Adame

So where'd the cheering post?


Prayer in public schools are wrong, not wrong


More or less nothing seems important. So it goes. Oh well. It's not important. That's how it is.

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